Richard Walker: But of course, the reason that the relations have been soured is the European capitals are very frustrated by the economic and diplomatic backing that the Chinese have been providing for Russia. But I just want to touch on another thing relating to this new administration – Donald Trump's been talking about wanting to take over Greenland, talking about Canada becoming the 51st State of the United States. This seems to reflect a kind of what some people call a neo-imperialism, or at least an idea that, you know, wanting to add territory to the United States. What's your take on that?

Zhou Bo: Actually, it surprised me as it surprised everybody. Nobody has anticipated that he would talk about this kind of gain here and there. So it is really surprising. What I am thinking actually is not what he is going to do next  – I don't know, but I believe he will continue to surprise people. What I'm thinking is that at the end of his second term, American’s image probably will go down further. Because if all people concluded that the United States does not want to shoulder any international responsibility, and apart from that America wants to grab land here and there, what is the moral high ground of the United States?

Richard Walker: I mean, at some point to that, I’m worried that if Trump is sending these signals, it might suggest that he wouldn't mind for instance if China made moves to take control of Taiwan. From a Chinese point of view, do you think that is some sort of encouragement that Trump might not stand in the way of, as you would see it, the reunification of Taiwan with the People’s Republic of China?

Zhou Bo: Well, people certainly put a lot of reference to China’s intention on Taiwan, be the Ukraine War, or be the remarks about Donald Trump. But I believe the Chinese government has been consistent to insist that we still would wish to have a peaceful reunification. So we only would use non-peaceful means in three conditions that are well documented in China's anti-secession law. So I believe that Trump's remarks would not really have anything to do with China.

And how could we resolve this billion-dollar question about maintaining peace in Taiwan Strait?

My personal answer is very simple -- we have to let China believe that peaceful reunification is still possible. Because one of the last conditions for China to use a non-peaceful means is that when China concludes that all possibilities for peaceful reunification are exhausted. So for the rest of the world, it's extremely important to assure China that there are still opportunities for peaceful reunification. So war across the strait is not inevitable.

Richard Walker: Pete Hegseth, the Defense Secretary, has been saying that one of the motivations for the US to pull back within Europe is that it needs to reassign forces to the Asia-Pacific to face what he describes as the threat from China. What’s your perspective on that?

Zhou Bo: I don't worry about that at all. Because just imagine, the United States could refocus on Indo-Pacific, so who can help the United States? Because the Biden administration has placed unprecedented importance on allies, right? Trump said America first, but for Biden, probably it is allies first. But in the war, in a hypothetical war with China, who can really help the United States?

Japan is on top of the list, but according to a public opinion poll, there are just about 11% of people who support a direct confrontation with China. And then it goes down to Australia. Australia, yes, would buy 8 nuclear-powered submarines from the United States and Britain, but the current Australian government has made it quite clear that they would not be involved in conflict in the Taiwan Strait. And then comes South Korea. South Korea would worry more about Korean Peninsula, and on that they definitely need support from the Chinese government. And then the Philippines. The Philippines has provided 9 military bases that are just on the first chain of Islands that would have tremendous military value for the United States. But the Filipinos are not stupid, because they have laid down conditions for the United States to use these bases. They cannot store weapons there, cannot launch attacks from there. Until this moment, still, this is the policy.

So no one is stupid. I don't believe that in a war between China and the US in the Western Pacific, it is a sure saying that the United states can win. Actually according to American think tanks, in most of the war games, the United states has actually lost to China.

Richard Walker: So I mean, one of the questions that Americans are asking themselves is why China is building up its nuclear arsenal so rapidly? The fear is that it might be to serve as a backstop for the kind of war that could potentially emerge between the two superpowers at some point in the future. Why is China expanding its nuclear forces so fast? And will the Chinese be open to suggestions from Donald Trump, which he's been floating as well that he would like to talk with the Chinese and with Vladimir Putin about arms control?

Zhou Bo: First of all, China is not really building its nuclear arsenal that fast. Because 90% of the nuclear arsenal around the world still belong to two countries -- Russia and the United States.

Richard Walker: It is still far behind, but it is still rapidly accelerating.

Zhou Bo: But China does have good reasons to increase its nuclear arsenals. Why? Because first of all you should modernize your weaponries and the equipment, as it happens to all kinds of weapons. So it does not mean that you can always do the maintenance work. I will give an example. How do I feel personally about the war in Ukraine about why NATOs would not send any soldiers to fight against the Russians. I think Russia's nuclear deterrence has really played a critical role. Then I have to compare Russia with China.

The United States doesn’t seem to care that much to be involved in a direct conflict with China as it would worry to be in a direct conflict with Russia. Why is that? Isn't it just because Russia has more nuclear weapons? China has more aircraft carriers than Russia. China's military is bigger than Russian military, and China's defense budget is three times bigger than the Russian military. So why the United States seems to be less afraid of China? I ask myself this question: is it because that China has just a nuclear arsenal that is less than 1/10 of that of the United States? If that is the case, what we need is a political decision. Because China has strong industry. China has the technical know-how and has demonstrated in our ICBM launch just several months ago that our missiles are quite all right. So the only question for us is to increase the number or not.

And some Americans actually have talked about using nuclear weapons against the Chinese in a conflict in Taiwan Strait. That is really， really alarming. And why would they say that? They say that because they feel that they actually have lost their advantage in a conventional warfare with China in theTaiwan Strait. So they are advocating using nuclear weapons against China.

Richard Walker: So Zhou Bo, we're going to have to end it there. But this is a conversation that I would love to continue with you because I think nuclear arms control is definitely going to be one of the hottest issues this year and heading into next year. But for now, from Munich, thank you Zhou Bo very much for speaking to DW.

Zhou Bo: Thank you.

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